Prestige Label Guide

Next: | Prestige Japan or Prestige in Europe

An Audiophile Guide to the Prestige Label

The LJC Prestige Label Cheat Sheet v2.1

Collectors Note:Whilst the Blue Note Catalogue Number remained constant throughout various subsequent pressings and reissues, Prestige issued a new catalogue number when a recording was formally reissued, and two or even three catalogue numbers will be found in the run-out as the master/mother was renumbered.

1. The Yellow/Black “Fireworks” Label – 446 W. 50th St NYC address (1955-8)

One of the first 12-inch microgroove LPs from Prestige manufactured 1955-8, Van Gelder mastered - hand-written initials RVG -  and pressing by Abbey Manufacturing – AB -  red highlighting is simulating infrared mapping, not actually red in real life.

The magic number which divides first and subsequent Prestige pressings is 7140. If the catalogue number is 7140 or below and it has an NY label, it is an original first pressing. If it is 7140 or below but has an NJ label it is a second or subsequent re-pressing, though still an “original” Prestige.

The audio quality of these very first 12-inch recordings is generally excellent – recorded and mastered in most cases by Van Gelder, though the earliest releases can sound a little “boxed in” due to the limited dynamic range of very early microphones, which improved dramatically towards the later Fifties.

2. Fireworks Label, NJ – 203 South Washington Ave address (1958-64)

The first Prestige label address, 446 West 50th Street, New York, changed in 1958 to 203 South Washington Avenue, Bergenfield, NJ.  PRLP 7141, Eddie “Lockjaw” Davis “Cookbook”, was the first release bearing the NJ address. Catalogue numbers higher than 7140 with the NJ address label may be first pressing or a second pressing, as  further copies of popular titles were pressed and the label remained in use until 1964.

The audio quality of NJ pressings is generally very high, falling within the golden era of vinyl quality production and benefitting from improvements in microphone dynamic range and recording equipment, and of course the engineering skills of  Van Gelder and his studios.

The only criticism made is the quality of the music, which on some titles was an unrehearsed “blowing session”. The famous Prestige All Stars meant whoever was in town and available for that date.  Weinstock was not as fastidious a producer as Alfred Lion at Blue Note, who funded rehearsal time, supervised recording sessions along side Rudy Van Gelder, and often rejected takes according to his own artistic judgement.

3. Firework label – NJ – Stereo -black/silver 1958-64

Early Stereo from Prestige, black and silver fireworks label. A picture found on the net as personally I have never seen or heard one of these. Prestige’s UK licensee Esquire only ever pressed mono editions.

Early stereo is not always a good experience, often with only a very primitive concept of “soundstage”. Front line solo instruments would be placed either extreme left or right, and the rhythm section oddly skewed, with perhaps piano and bass centre but drums on the far right. It can add up to an unsettling listening experience  and accounts for some collectors preference for mono at this time, though no doubt it has its fans. Engineers like Roy duNann at Contemporary had a much more sophisticated approach which delivered up a superior stereo presentation as early as the late Fifties, and stereo the preferred edition, according to taste.

There is alo a detailed argument among stereophiles as to integrity of the “recording intent” – where mono editions were created by folding down a recording made originally in stereo, which should be heard as intended.  One area of agreement however is recordings “electronically engineered to simulate stereo” which should be avoided like the plague. Universally dreadful, unsucessful in stereo presentation, and the original dynamics ruined in the process. Good only for coasters.

4. New Jazz

A Prestige new release label employed 1958 – 1964 (series 8200 – 8300)

New Jazz – a Prestige label sometimes marred by the random presence of recycled vinyl among releases. Some pressings are perfectly fine, others have the dreaded background hiss throughout. There is no consistency – even the same title can be found with hissy copies and not hissy. It all depend on whether the raw vinylite delivered to the pressing plant that week had been bulked up with recycled vinyl or not. To Weinstock, reducing the cost of vinyl seemed just good business, unaware of the consequences for future generations with Hi Fi .

European editions of these titles may be preferred as they do not suffer the same problem, though sometimes there is no option. The music and engineering is nevertheless superb and some artists are found only on the New Jazz label.

5. The Prestige Specialty Labels – Moodsville, Swingville and Bluesville

Often with RVG initials in the runout, these are Prestige proper recordings

Swingville

(Swingville picture courtesy of Bob Djukic)

Moodsville

Bluesville

(Bluesville picture courtesy of Bob Djukic)

Sound every bit as good as Prestige of the same period. As to why these specialty labels were introduced, the story has been told that Weinstock created these new labels not as a stroke of marketing genius, but as a device to reduce tax liabilities on sales on his primary label. Possibly true, but sums owing to the IRS has never been a good indicator as to the quality of music.

6.  The failed revolution – 16 rpm

Just as the 12″ LP replaced the 10″ single by extending playing time, in the late Fifties Prestige lanched an innovation planned to double the length of playing time, by halving the record speed. Whilst quite suited to the spoken word, 16rpm was a disaster to the quality of music, and within a dozen titles, disappeared. The innovation that would embraced by the public in the next few years was not length of playing time, but Stereo.

(16rpm picture courtesy of Bob Djukic)

6.The Trident Label 1964 – 1971

The Blue Label/Silver Trident was the primary label format successor to the yellow/ black fireworks label from 1964, adopted both for new releases and reissues of earlier titles.

Example 1.

Example below illustrates typical runout engravings – Van Gelder mastering (early handwritten form “RVG”), Abbey Manufacturing pressing plant (“AB”) and catalogue number updates (original scratched out, reissue catalogue number added, A/B side error correction)

Example 2.

Example 2 above, a reissue of an earlier New Jazz title,  showingboth New Jazz and Prestige catalogue numbers. The Blue/ silver trident audio quality is generally superb, with wide dynamic range and engaging presence.Reissues are especially great value, being pressed with metalwork derived from the original master, but not considered as collectible and therefore no where near as expensive.

Stereo label – Blue (1964)

Exists in two known variations – with and without deep groove, and variation in position of the silver trident

(Photo courtesy of Albert of Ohio)

 Mono Label – Gold

Stereo Label – Black

Stereo editions account for a large proportion of variations in label design – colours and position of trident, whether enclosed within a circle as a  logo, and of course the word “STEREO” to be fitted in.

7.Prestige’s “budget label” Status 1960′s

Difficult to see what was budget apart from saving on ink, providing minimal information saved nothing, but made it look budget. Working in Marketing in the Seventies, the big fear was always “cannibalisation”. You wanted all the sales you could get at the premium price, and extra sales at the budget price, without losing the one to the other. Extra effort was incurred to make things look less attractive. More marketing genius from Weinstock.

9. Modern Prestige 1971+

In 1971 what remained of the Weinstock empire of Prestige was sold to new owners, Fantasy Records of Los Angeles California. In the years that followed Fantasy flooded the market  with re-issues from the Prestige Catalogue, variously attributed to “Fantasy Records” or “Prestige Records”, cover address Berkley California, Tenth and Parker to be found on label and cover.

A pale shadow of their former glory, they are universally feeble pressings – better in such cases to buy the CD. From time to time I have “chanced it” for a filler and have never failed to be disappointed. Merely being vinyl confers no magic.

The dreaded OJC Reissue – 100gm vinyl weight

To be continued…

abbeyad

firtst-press-records-caphighlight

http://fipres.com  (go to tab called “Guide)

Next: | Prestige Japan

Prestige in Europe

37 thoughts on “Prestige Label Guide

  1. Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I came upon what I believe is a first pressing of Manteca by Red Garland trio plus Ray Barretto…PRLP 7139, so the last release on the NY labels. It does in face have NY labels, but they say HI FIDELITY instead of HI FI and has RVG stamped instead of etched. I guess the label design/dead wax info must have begun to change right before the label moved to NJ?

  2. Hi,
    I’m looking for infomation about the ‘AB’ runout etchings on Prestige, Folkways and other records. Abbey (Record) Manufacturing, NJ, appears nor and then as the pressing plant of these copies, but there doesn’t seem to be hardcore evidence. I wonder, if someone could support me by giving a reliable source for ‘AB’ being definitely ‘Abbea Manufacturing’. Thanks and best

    Mark

  3. LJC, great labelography! I really enjoy your blog. I have a much higher opinion of OJC reissues, though, especially in terms of “bang for the buck”. The pre-1990s ones were all analog transfers from the original tapes and I’ve very rarely encountered even a slightly noisy pressing. The vinyl is lighter, but the sound is usually excellent. Given a VG or worse original and a VG+ or better OJC, I’ve preferred the OJC every time. I think paying under $10 a copy (often sealed) for the OJC is also part of the thrill.

    • Welcome Chris. All opinions are good here. I haven’t listened to every issue of every record, and I often surprised myself when I find a pressing which I just “know” is rubbish, and it turns out a gem. Isn’t that annoying? I even had a French DMM Blue Note that defied all expectations and turned out terrific. I haven’t had much luck with OJC but I know some have, so thanks for putting the word in for them. At the end of the day it is what sounds good to you that matters.

      • The early pressings with paste-on back covers and “GH” in the matrix often sound very good (and look and feel decent too – heavier cardboard and crisp graphics than later glossy bar-coded covers). For example, I recently play-compared a blue twin-reel label mono “Sound of Sonny” with an early OJC pressing, and they sounded very similar. It was both wonderful and annoying (happily, I paid little for the blue label, so not annoying in that way, but you know what I mean). For very rare or expensive pressings, an early OJC pressed in the US with a paste-on back cover for under $10 is not a bad way to go as a starter, in my humble opinion.

  4. LJC – any thoughts on Status audio quality? I have a copy of Oliver Nelson’s “Main Stem” (killer record), and aside from the label looking like crap, the vinyl is heavy, “Van Gelder” is in the matrix, and the sound is superb to my ears. It appears to me to be a top-quality blue trident label, just with a crappy orange Status label. Any contrary thoughts or experience?

    • Just lent an ear to my Jackie McClean Alto Madness ST8312 on Status. Pressed direct from an original PRLP/ RVG stamper, chunky 150gm vinyl, good dynamic range, no roll-off at the top, firm springy bass, McClean sounds fresh and inside in the room, nice mono presentation, in a word…Great!. Nothing budget about Prestige’s budget label. I’d be happy with a Status any time, and being issued around 1966 it has by-passed the most damaging years for vinyl. Quickly flipped on my Kenny Burrell Guitar Soul ST8318 and the same story, really nice listen. Good value for listeners, if not those wanting only the original artefact.

      • Glad you had the same experience. All of my copies sound great, and were all cheap. Labels are super ugly, but oh well.

    • Yellow and black make a horrible color combination, but once you come to associate the label with the excitement of the music itself, the bad effects fade in importance. The blue and silver Bluesville label was fairly handsome though, wasn’t it?

  5. Your guide got me interested in the sound quality of Prestige compared to Blue Note. I won an Eddie ‘Lockjaw’ Davis album on Ebay, very cheap: http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/160913293277?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 There is organ it (and flute) :)
    It’s the first Bergenfield NJ (Prestige 7141)
    Same for Jimmy Smith on Blue Note, they go cheap too!
    But the sound is amazing. No hiss at all, and so ‘you are there’. Prestige, hmm, need some Miles albums now. They’ll be not that cheap I’m afraid.

  6. Hi LJC

    Could you explain how to make the distinction between the original Fireworks Yellow/Black labels and the ones reissued by OJC (Original Jazz Classics), because the labels of the latter seem to be a facsimili of the original ones.

    Thanks, loving your blog

    Dirk

    • Hi Dirk, the dreaded OJC – Ive added a picture at the end – has no address on the label, has OJC number where the Prestige number used to be, and weighs only 100gm compared to around 175gm for the real thing.

  7. I have a gold label copy of Dolphy’s Outward Bound that is in really nice shape and it’s not hissy at all. I also have an original pressing of the Roy Haynes album Cracklin’ on the purple New Jazz label that also sounds fantastic. While I agree that a lot of the green label lps lack the magic that draws one in like the earlier pressings it really does matter if you have a good turntable/cartridge set up for enjoyment of those later pressings.

    In recent years I have bought some used Prestige albums that were pressed in Europe that have blue Victor labels on them with HIs Master’s Voice in French at the top of the circle and the dog and phonograph below it. The only one I can think of at the moment is Red Garland’s When Skys Are Grey. I have a few others but I can’t retrieve them from my biological mainframe at the moment :-) . They are quiet pressings but agree that they too lack any real magic though I’m happy to have them until a better copy comes along.

    • Hi Les, thanks for the input, Seems the Prestige Gold are hit and miss – my Colossus hisses like a gas leak. I really envy you that Roy Haynes Cracklin’ on New Jazz. There will be a post shortly on the light green Prestige reissue – watch this space.

  8. New to buying online? Ouch, I can remember that feeling! I don’t have a sellers “blacklist” but I do have some rules for successful buying online, which you may find helpful. There are rather too many issues to put in a post reply so I have committed these to a page, under the heading “Buying records online, including thoughts on record grades. You will find it here:
    http://londonjazzcollector.wordpress.com/buying-records-online/tips-on-buying-records-online-successfully/
    It is also linked under the heading WHAT’S NEW in the blog header

  9. Hi again LJC, you mentioned a couple of Ebayers that I have seen also. In your experience, is there anyone that I should avoid buying records from on Ebay? I am new to buying online!
    Also, purely from an audio point of view, what grading and beyond should I be avoiding? ie. dont buy anything worse than VG+?? Or is VG+ still mostly (and I realise this can be debatable between sellers/collectors) still sounding fine? Thanks for the help.
    I’ve just realised my Prestige Swing Ville 2009 Claude Hopkins ‘Yes Indeed!’ has the RVG stamp and is older than I realised! Cool!
    Cheers,
    Sam

  10. do you have any real proof that PRESTIGE recycled vinyl a la CROWN records. were you inferring that the complete gold label run is recycled?

    • I have around 30 Prestige and New Jazz original pressings. Four of the Prestiges are hissy – PR7295 and PR7326, PRST7342(double) and two of the New Jazz – the Walt Dickersons NJLP8275 and 8254 as best I recall. In all cases later pressings around mid Sixties. The rest are all fine. I have only the one gold label, which is hissy, so I have no knowledge of others in this series.

      btw I note Organisso thread October 2010 on subject of gold black trident, comments from “Chewy”. Hi!

      Reputable ebayer Euclid Records is currently selling a copy of NJLP8286 Roy Haynes Cracklin “GRADE & DESCRIPTION (RECORD): VG+ Multiple light surface scuffs, recycled vinyl.”
      Another seller Fifties Jazz on negative feedback (11/03/11)
      “member unaware of surface noise in later Prestige albums due to inferior vinyl”

      Seems well known within record collector circles .Interestingly my copy of 8286 doesnt hiss, which suggests the issue may even be batch-production specific rather than record specific. Down to whoever was the supplier of vinylite to the plant and which batch was used in that run that day. If anyone out there knows more, welcome the input. We are all learning.

  11. Thank you mate, very helpful :) I am interested to hear the quality of a decent Japanese (king or victor) press of my favourite album, compared to what I consider great, the relative cd that I’ve listed to for years. I am coming completely from the listening perspective, rather than a collectors view with pristine cover etc, and am excited to know that I could potentially hear my favourite musicians even clearer than I have before!
    P.s….you don’t want to off load that Louis Smith ‘Smithville’ album by any chance do you??
    Thanks again.
    Sam

    • No chance. It flew to me all the way from America and its staying here.

      Just a thought about vinyl compared to CD re “clarity” .The additional information found in an analogue source, vinyl, provided you have a set up that can retrieve it!, adds a range of different dimensions. “Clarity” is part of it but the music should evoke a stronger emotional response, engagement with the artist, a more natural airy presentation, one where the music flows more, where you want to listen rather than flick to another track or album (a real sign of disengagement) . Vinyl’s extra information is a gateway to a higher quality of musical enjoyment.

  12. Hi LJC, what do you think of the 1977 Japanese ‘Victor’ pressings of Prestige recordings? I’ve never heard one, any idea on the audio quality? I cannot afford an original Prestige pressing unfortunately.
    Cheers,
    Sam

    • All respect to our Japanese jazz friends, record companies in Japan always employed superior audio engineers and best quality vinyl manufacturing processes, throughout the years when US and European vinyl went into decline. Japanese manufactured re-issues during the seventies and eighties (King (for United Artists), Victor ( for Prestige) and Toshiba ( for EMI) are all hugely superior to their US/European re-issue counterparts and superior to modern CDs.
      They are relatively inexpensive as Japanese collectors lust for US originals. I have bought direct from Japan and dealers tell me pressings like King are even becoming very hard to find in Japan..
      I have around a dozen seventies Victor Prestiges and find them very nice listening. Not as strong as US Originals, a little “polite rather than ballsy” but much better quality than most later reissues, and the condition is invariably excellent as a bonus.

  13. Hi, The Vinyl Detective is IN.
    The magic number with Prestige catalogue numbers is 7140 – the last record released on the NY address label. After that it’s Bergenfield NJ. for first pressings and subsequent pressings of earlier titles.
    So, your copy is 7025, the first press would be on NY labels. Yours being on NJ indicates a later pressing. Whether it is a “second pressing” or a “re-issue” is a debating point. From what I have seen, both were pressed from the same source RVG master, the only difference being reissues were given a new catalogue number (found etched in the runout alongside the original catalogue number) They should sound the same – within the variation between first and last off the stamper in use.
    However they are not worth the same in collector dollars. The original artefact will always be worth a lot more, though I would say both are desirable. And MDwH is a great cover, I am envious.

  14. I have Prestige LP 7025 (MDWH) with the Bergenfield Yellow Fireworks label. etchings on the vinyl – PRLP 7025 A and B (each side) plus etched RVG each side. Was this a re-issue or re-pressing after the original with the NYC address ??? I’m guessing that it was a big seller and Weinstock had to go to another pressing???

  15. I have 7005 (MJQ) Concord with RVG and AB in the deadwax. Its a Metronome copy, pressed in Denmark with a label that doesn’t appear above. Ring any bells?

    • Short answer Tom, no bells. If its got RVG and AB its pressed from a stamper that originated from the US master – that’s how Prestige overseas marketing worked. My guess is that just as Prestige had a press and sell agreement in the UK with Esquire, and later, Transtlantic, a French, a Japanese, and a German, I guess they could have had other European /Country distribution agreements. Denmark and Paris were the US Jazz expatriate centres. What you have may be rare here, and not rare in Denmark. May be some one else has the story.

  16. after careful check of my trail off Prestiges, I couldn’t draw any useful info.
    all but one have RVG, in different shapes, as on Blue Note.
    interesting if others collectors could compare their copies.
    7003: m jackson: NY 7E
    7004: l konitz: NY no marks
    7005: mjq: NY no marks
    7007: m davis: NY 7E
    7012: m davis: NY no marks
    7013: m davis: NY no marks
    7014: m davis: NY no marks
    7017: a farmer: NY no marks
    7020: s rollins: NY no marks
    7025: m davis: NY IIII side 1 only
    7027: t monk: NY no marks
    7029: s rollins: NY no marks
    7032: g wallington: NY no marks
    7034: m davis: NY AB and a small D
    7038: s rollins: NY A
    7044: m davis: NY AB and a small A after RVG. on side 2 AB is readable in the external part of label
    7047: s rollins NY: AB plus A on side one and B on side two
    7053: t monk NY AB plus B
    7054: m davis: NY AB; small B next to RVG and 1 opposite side on side 1; D next to RVG on side 2
    7055: c brown: NY AB
    7058: s rollins: NY AB plus A both sides
    7070: t dameron: NY AB
    7074: tenor conclave: NY AB and A
    7075: t monk: NY AB plus F side one or D side two
    7076: m davis: NY side 1: AB, E next RVG, 1 opposite side; side 2: AB on label, D next to RVG
    7079: s rollins: NY AB plus C dide one and E side two
    7080: p woods: NY side one: AB and A; side two no AB but B
    7083: g ammons: bergenfield AB
    7089: j raney: NY AB plus A side one; A side two
    7094: m davis: NY AB; on side one A and 1; on side two C
    7095: s rollins: NY AB plus B both sides
    7104: t macero: NY AB plus A
    7105: j coltrane: NY AB
    7109: m davis: NY AB and A, both sides
    7112: i sulieman: NY AB and A, both sides
    7114: j mclean: NY AB plus D side one or B side two
    7118: t jones: NY no marks
    7123: j coltrane: NY B only, first cover
    7125: s lacy: NY AB; A next to RVG both sides
    7126: s rollins: NY AB, almost hidden under label both sides; additional B side one, C side 2
    7129: m davis: NY C side one, A side two
    7130: r garland: bergenfield AB plus hierogliph
    7131: f wess: NY 58
    7132: g ammons: berbenfield T8
    7142: j coltrane: bergenfield E side 1; AB and E side 2
    7150: m davis bergenfield: AB (C side one and what looks like LI side two)
    7158: j coltrane: bergenfield no marks
    7166: m davis; bergenfield no marks side one; 06-L-L MBA on side two
    7181: r garland: bergenfield AB (specular)
    7188: j coltrane: bergenfield AB with additional separate A on side 1
    7200: m davis: bergenfield AB
    7201: g ammons: bergenfield AB (different font)
    7209: r garland: bergenfield AB
    7206: e davis: bergenfield AB
    7213: j coltrane: bergenfield AB
    7229: r garland: bergenfield AB
    7243: j coltrane: bergenfield: ZA1
    7268: j coltrane: bergenfield no marks
    7280: j coltrane: bergenfield no marks
    7292: j coltrane: bergenfield no marks
    7294: e dolphy: bergenfield no marks (catalogue numbers for prestige AND new jazz NJLP 8288)
    7304: e dolphy: bergenfield no marks (there are 2 catalogue numbers on each side, one for prestige and one for new jazz. this one, NJLP 8300, is erased on side two, no RVG)
    7316: j coltrane: bergenfield no marks
    7334: e dolphy: trident no marks ( a deep groove on side 2 only)
    7350: e dolphy: trident no marks
    7353: j coltrane: trident no marks (has 2 catalogue numbers, one scratched and erased)
    7366: e dolphy: trident no marks
    7378: j coltrane: trident DM
    7382: e dolphy: trident no marks

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